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chewy
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Posting #11: Tue Mar 20th, 2007 03:46 |
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Moola,
Very excellent analysis.
I simply do not understand what's the objective of the management for holding so much cash. Maybe the minority shareholder should post this question to the team during AGM.
They get IA to help them invest with the cash. Why? Is the IA 'ka ki lang'? Or are they trying to justify higher director's fee payout?
My view is, when you have no better way to use the cash, just admit it, do something and not through this way which is by playing in the stock market where risk is relatively so much higher than eg. FD.
Juz my view. No more holding any stock. But the cash level is attractive.
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Moolah
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Posting #12: Tue Mar 20th, 2007 04:35 |
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chewy wrote: Moola,
Very excellent analysis.
I simply do not understand what's the objective of the management for holding so much cash. Maybe the minority shareholder should post this question to the team during AGM.
They get IA to help them invest with the cash. Why? Is the IA 'ka ki lang'? Or are they trying to justify higher director's fee payout?
My view is, when you have no better way to use the cash, just admit it, do something and not through this way which is by playing in the stock market where risk is relatively so much higher than eg. FD.
Juz my view. No more holding any stock. But the cash level is attractive.
chewy,
all in.. i think this stock ( in terms of stock price) might have potential due to the tremendous increase in earnings... which could see the stock price appreciate in the near future.
but.. depending on the individual... if one is a long term investor.. then the investor should realise that perhaps this stock market investment by ptatas is perhaps not in the best of the shareholders' interest.
which is kinda of normal... since each stock will have some sort of plus and minus issues... and ultimately it depends on the investors' own appetite...
rgds
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adg
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Posting #13: Tue Mar 20th, 2007 15:39 |
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Hi Moolah,
You said....I am sorry because i think i had posed my question wrongly to you. So sorry.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Thanks!, never mind the slight miscommunication. The important issue here we have in common is to make money on this stock. I am confident we can since it has retracted from its new high this year of 1.70+ and and the two quarterly reports show promise of a much better picture to come when it's year end accounts are puplished.
For the cash hoard that the Company now has, it can declare a special dividend to return to shareholders, but I am not in favour of this move since it is a short term gain. Look at Pacific Mas, the price is worse off ex the special dividend 0f RM1.50 per share!
I would rather see Pintaras grow through M&A, preferably buying out the smaller synergestic companies (if any) to weed out opposition. I am sure this is in the mind of the Management. I am not too worried about them trying out a small portion of their cash in stock market investment, provided it is not on speculative stocks. We are not in a position to dictate to them except to question them at the AGM. But what we are here is to make money on this stock in the near term, 5-6 months from now when the final accounts are published. If we make the money, lock in the profits and then wait for new opportunities. If we think it is ok to continue holding this stock, then do it by all means. There is no such thing to me as "long term", or "loyalty" to any stock.
So we now have to make up our minds to go in or not at current prices having heard all the pros n cons of this stock.
Thanks to all for your kind input!
Regards
adg
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Moolah
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Posting #14: Wed Mar 21st, 2007 02:14 |
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Hi adg,
We are to share our opinions and isn't this is what a forum is all about?
:s18:
Anyway.. here's some more opinions... hope u do not mind..
- For the cash hoard that the Company now has, it can declare a special dividend to return to shareholders, but I am not in favour of this move since it is a short term gain. Look at Pacific Mas, the price is worse off ex the special dividend 0f RM1.50 per share!
Cash per share is a tricky yardstick. End of the day, harshly put, the cash is in the hands of the management. IF management does not share out the cash.. it's all look but not touch kind of thingy for the minority shareholder.
Yes, PacificMas was excellent. So was EON. There are many good examples... BUT ... there are also many that did not share out their cash. Examples? UAC. Keck Seng and oh even Magnum.
As Ptaras, the cash per share is healthy... but some 37.3% of its cash equivalent is tied up in the share market.
Now putting aside the results of its investments, firstly we have to remind ourselves that Ptaras was never a generous dividend payer.
let me repeat again..
a 5% payout works out to only 2.882 million. And it's really measly when u consider it has some 65 million in cash equivalent as per latest earnings.
Which tells me the management so far has shown that it's more willing to dabble in the stock market than to share the company wealth with it's shareholders.
Will the management change such policy???
- I would rather see Pintaras grow through M&A, preferably buying out the smaller synergestic companies (if any) to weed out opposition. I am sure this is in the mind of the Management. I am not too worried about them trying out a small portion of their cash in stock market investment, provided it is not on speculative stocks. We are not in a position to dictate to them except to question them at the AGM. But what we are here is to make money on this stock in the near term, 5-6 months from now when the final accounts are published. If we make the money, lock in the profits and then wait for new opportunities. If we think it is ok to continue holding this stock, then do it by all means. There is no such thing to me as "long term", or "loyalty" to any stock.
So we now have to make up our minds to go in or not at current prices having heard all the pros n cons of this stock. Two issues here.
As rightly pointed out in regards to the cash, "We are not in a position to dictate to them except to question them at the AGM."
which brings back again to the point of the investment in the share market point u have mentioned...
- am not too worried about them trying out a small portion of their cash in stock market investment, provided it is not on speculative stocks.
As mentioned by you, the investment is done by an investment adviser.
Sadly, again for the minority investor, this is AN ISSUE. I for one could raise many questions. For example...
Who is the said investment adviser?
How qualified are these adviser?
What's the investment philosophy of these advisers?
What kind of shares are the investment advisers?
Will there be any conflict of interest when an investment is made? For example, is the investment adviser making any purchase of shares in which the investment adviser has vested interest in? OR what if the investment adviser is instructed to buy shares that the management has vested interest??
See? I could go on and on.. it's not that I am being too critical or skeptical but this is only to be expected when the plc make such investment in the share market.
Remember, as it is, Ptaras has 24.376 million invested in the stock market.
Ahem... this is not a small amount, yes?
Anyway.. as usual, do treat these as mere second opinions... err... some cheap coffee shop share market talk only, ok?
cheers!
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adg
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Posting #15: Wed Mar 21st, 2007 05:08 |
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Hi Moolah,
Thanks for the opportunity provided for "brain-storming" on this stock. Point well-taken, for we dont want to see our hard earned money fizzled out in bad investments. Over the years we must protect our wealth and make it grow, and the stock market can be rewarding if we know what we are doing. Forums such as these are excellent avenues for consultations and exchange of views and ideas. We as minority share holders are generally at the "mercy" of the controlling shareholders. But what choice have we got except to trust the "captains" who steer the company in the direction they deemed best for the Company. As for Pintaras, I can see that some directors do accumulate and increase stakes in the Company's shares.
Changes in Substantial Shareholder’s Interest (29B)
Date and Time
Title
12 Sep 2006 5:40PM
KHOO YOK KEE (80,200 Shares Acquired)
12 Sep 2006 5:40PM
DR CHIU HONG KEONG (80,200 Shares Acquired)
12 Sep 2006 5:40PM
PINTARAS BINA SDN. BHD. (80,200 Shares Acquired)
14 Dec 2005 5:33PM
KHOO YOK KEE (137,300 Shares Acquired)
14 Dec 2005 5:33PM
DR CHIU HONG KEONG (137,300 Shares Acquired)
30 Nov 2005 6:03PM
DR CHIU HONG KEONG (50,200 Shares Acquired)
30 Nov 2005 6:03PM
KHOO YOK KEE (50,200 Shares Acquired)
19 Sep 2005 5:15PM
DR CHIU HONG KEONG (49,000 Shares Acquired)
19 Sep 2005 5:14PM
KHOO YOK KEE (49,000 Shares Acquired)
24 Feb 2005 5:17PM
DR CHIU HONG KEONG (44,800 Shares Acquired)
24 Feb 2005 5:17PM
KHOO YOK KEE (44,800 Shares Acquired)
23 Dec 2004 5:05PM
Dr Chiu Hong Keong (689,520 Shares Acquired)
23 Dec 2004 5:05PM
Khoo Yok Kee (689,520 Shares Acquired)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Regards
adg
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LAL
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Posting #16: Wed Mar 21st, 2007 06:24 |
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It's quite remarkable for a construction company to have a net cash position. Give em kudos for that. However, as pointed out, the dabbling in shares is a concern. Is this a potential reflection of their speculative nature, especially with respect to their core business? Even though they've hired an investment adviser, how do we know they do not have a (big) say in management of the investments? That being the case, aren't they channeling time and energy away from their core business? These are questions the longer-term investor needs to know. Top notch management would just pay out excess cash as dividends if they don't know what else to do with it.
For me, I'd put in some "play" money for Pintaras' cheap valuations and strong current earnings, but not for the long-term, at least until they clean up their cash management act.
Aside, Bursa should just come out with a ruling that bars listed companies from "securing higher returns" from cash holdings by trading in shares of other listed companies. Exceptions would be for strategic or long(er)-term stakes in companies in similar business.
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Moolah
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Posting #17: Wed Mar 21st, 2007 07:17 |
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for those interested..
chewy has done a chart for you all...
http://sahamas.net/view_topic.php?id=3544&forum_id=4
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Moolah
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Posting #18: Sat May 12th, 2007 03:05 |
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Pintaras jaya announced its earnings last night.
Any comments?
:s18:
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Moolah
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Posting #19: Sat May 12th, 2007 03:25 |
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And the above is the snapshot of Pintaras Jaya's dabbling in the stock market.
It would appear to me that it's kinda aggressive. It sold a chunk - 18.481 million is a CHUNK hor... and it bought some 18.529 million.
Looks like we have a fighter, yes?
:s18:
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adg
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Posting #20: Sat May 12th, 2007 11:52 |
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:s5:
Hi Moola,
Thanks for updating, in a presentation that is quite groovy. It is beyond me to make it in that fashion!
I think can start accumulating now at such cheap valuations. If PNB has faith in holding a 11.25 % stake since 2002, as the second largest shareholder, it gives me more confidence to trust in a company like this one. What else can we minority shareholders do accept to analyse as carefully as best we can, in the end either plunge in or miss the boat.
The share closed at RM1.50, so any idea up up to what price we can enter at opening. Looks like it may adjust itself up to 1.60 in line with the better results.
Regards
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